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Star Wars is the best series ever!

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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby Wing Saber » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:20 pm

Agent X wrote:lack of likeable characters

Untrue. I loved:
Yoda
Obi-Wan
R2
Darth Maul
and most battle droids!
And that's just off of the top of my head!
Agent X wrote:characters lacking common sense

See this makes sense though. They rely too heavily on the force and the powers it gives them (Such as seeing the future, etc), so they never have to use their common sense.
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby ironrod prime » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:05 pm

i saw this article on yahoo about how the prequals were better than the first three the guy made some good points if i find it ill post it
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby ironrod prime » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:51 pm

ironrod prime wrote:i saw this article on yahoo about how the prequals were better than the first three the guy made some good points if i find it ill post it


found it

[/quote]It verges on cinematic treason to suggest that the "Star Wars" prequel trilogy is in any way superior to the original trilogy. However, history has proved that treasonous behavior is just as often necessary to stimulate progressive revolution as it is to endow malevolent forces with unrestricted authority necessary to obstruct basic human rights. So here goes: the first three episodes in the saga of Anakin Skywalker are deeper, better structured, and more politically astute than the final three. Not only is that why the prequel is superior, it is also a pretty decent elucidation of the original trilogy's greater popularity.

That the "Star Wars" trilogy embraced by American moviegoers is the one that presents a far less complex universe is not incidental to the rabid rebuke of the prequel. "A New Hope," "The Empire Strikes Back," and "Return of the Jedi" reflect the Cold War milieu in which they were created, offering up a comforting us-vs.-them story told in bold strokes lacking nuance, complexity, or intellectual ambiguity. That isn't to say that times have changed much; with the exception of "The Phantom Menace," the second and third installments of the prequel were released to an America that had embraced absolute views even more so than the original trilogy.


The difference is that the original trilogy appealed directly to the simplistic moral perspective of an America above reproach and always on the side of right in global geopolitics, whereas the much more subversive prequel trilogy stands in defiant counterpoint to the much more dangerously simplistic moral absolutism of the Age of Bush.


The original trilogy holds a special place in the bosom of American moviegoers precisely because we view ourselves comfortably in place of the Rebels. Americans revel in their historical construct as rebellious underdogs constantly at war against an easily identified and unquestionably evil empire. Hence, the reason most Americans love the original trilogy has much to do with placement of ourselves in the role of the inheritors of the mantle of the Jedi.

The problem is that the post-9/11 world meant Americans also were forced to identify themselves with the Jedi in the prequel trilogy as well, and we don't like the face we see in the mirror. Let's face it, the Jedi don't exactly come off too swell in the prequel. This time around they are the guys in charge, and it is painful to watch them screw it up, especially when the way they hand over the keys to the Empire is so eerily familiar to a historical era defined by words like "signing statements" and "Patriot Act."


Just in case you didn't notice in your rush to castigate Jar-Jar Binks and complain about the wooden dialogue of the prequel, the peaceful Galactic Republic in place at the beginning of "The Phantom Menace" doesn't turn into the dark empire in place at the beginning of "A New Hope" due to an invasion by a foreign element. The Republic falls as a result of due democratic process, albeit due democratic process that is manipulated through lies and deception. Again, sound familiar?


Watching the "Stars Wars" prequel trilogy is like the most entertaining lesson in civics ever given -- specifically the way it reveals how even a republic peopled by representative leaders with the best of intentions can make decisions that result in disastrous policies, accompanied by devastation and the crumbling of great ideas. Yoda's observations about anger, hate, fear, and suffering are not said lightly; they may be the most prescient words spoken by a movie character in recent memory.


Not much less important is another quote associated with "The Phantom Menace," a quote that hasn't proved anywhere near as memorable as Yoda's but nonetheless plays a huge part in the events that will follow. Chances are you don't even remember these words of Darth Maul: "Fear is my ally." One can well imagine that slogan scrawled across the office walls of men like Scooter Libby and tattooed across the back of Dick Cheney.

Nowhere in the original "Star Wars" trilogy is there any sequence of events nearly as profound in their application to real life as Palpatine's manipulative orchestration of the separatist movement "headed" by Count Dooku. Palpatine's nefarious scripting of events allows him to go before the senate and ask for special "emergency powers" to deal with the growing threat facing the peace of the republic. Perhaps if Americans had embraced the prequel in the way they did the original "Star Wars" trilogy, they would recognize the danger when an elected member of a representative republic asks for "emergency powers" to combat a threat.

Palpatine's actions in the prequel are positively Machiavellian, and his evil in those first three movies is far more chilling than his appearances as the emperor in the original trilogy. In those movies, Palpatine is so far removed from us we can only approach him from the perspective of a Hitler. We must always remember that Hitler didn't ascend to dictator by using tanks, but the ballot box.


Just as Palpatine is far more chilling as a politician abusing the system than he is as an emperor in comprehensively malevolent control, so is Anakin Skywalker far more chilling as a powerless pawn than he is as powerful Darth Vader. No more alarming scene exists in the entire "Star Wars" canon than the political conversation that takes place in "Attack of the Clones" between Anakin and Amidala when the boy-who-would-be Vader suggests the system is broken and needs to be replaced with something where one person in charge has the power to enforce laws he feels are for the good of the people. Amidala replies, rightfully, that what Anakin is talking about sounds like a dictatorship. And then these all-too-familiar words from Anakin: "Well, if it works."

Anakin's justification that if authoritarian control works in keeping us safe was being repeated on a daily basis by those in charge at the very time the scene was being projected onto multiplex screens around the world. Too many Anakin Skywalkers existed then and, amazingly, exist right now in this country who are far too eager to give up hard-earned civil rights for the illusion of security. And it is the very fact that one can write about Anakin without calling him either evil or good that elevates the prequel above the original. Try naming a single character in the original trilogy that can attain such an authentic level of ambiguity.

There is absolutely no element or character in the original trilogy that isn't delineated in stark black and white terms. Episodes IV through VI tell a much happier story, one that is consistent with the birth of the American democracy through acts of rebellion by a ragtag group of people who held the moral high ground. Episodes I through III, by contrast, tell a much less happy story about how a democracy can come to an end -- not at the hands of foreign interlopers, but directly through the democratic process itself. More people may prefer the original "Star Wars" trilogy, but there is no question that the prequel is a more challenging, illuminating, and superior work of art. [/quote]
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby Agent X » Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:44 pm

Wing Saber wrote:
Agent X wrote:lack of likeable characters

Untrue. I loved:
Yoda
Obi-Wan
R2
Darth Maul
and most battle droids!
And that's just off of the top of my head!


(I'm basing this on only the movies just like most movie goers. the quote a friend "If its not in the movie it doesn't count" )
The droid arn't realy characters, their background just like the clones

What character does Mual have besides jumping around and fighting?

Yoda is a shadow of what he was established as in the OT, and Obi-Wan shows none of the cunning or wisdom that he was established in the OT (TPM is an exception due to him being a padawn but by that time he already had 10+ years of expriance with Qui-gon, then by AotC he had another 10+ years) Plus Obi-Wan has only a few lines to show that he and Anakin (the main character of all the prequil movie apperently, how this works fo TPM is unknown) are good freinds, and the lines fail at that.

As for R2 he is just like he is in the OT, but by George's own words cant be a character people like becasue charaters have to comunicate efectivly. (If you are neither Anakin or Luke then tough)

I suggest you watch the RedLetterMedia, Plinkett reveiws of the prequils
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby ironrod prime » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:12 pm

most people who review the prequals have a biased opinion of them because those same reviewers grew up with the original trilogy

and how is yoda a shadow of who he was in tesb and rotj he barely did anything in those movies while in the prequals not only is he younger but we actualy get to see him fight
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby Agent X » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:37 pm

ironrod prime wrote:i saw this article on yahoo about how the prequals were better than the first three the guy made some good points if i find it ill post it


The problem with this artical is that the writer is reading his personal politics into the movies. I have to point out the the "Bush era" didn't start till 2 years after TPM was out.

He is also leaves out the fact (as stated by George and multiple film cridics) the OT is a homage to the old scifi serials of the 1930s and 40s. Rather the write complains they lacks any "political" intreage. This sounds more like person preferacne in movies.

He also miss quotes TPM, the line "Fear is my ally" is not in the movie however it was form a promitnal poem (you can find on the DVD) read by Darth Maul.

Are the prequils deeper? The write says yes, but when you are strait out told/shown these "political" goings own dose that qualify as depth? Plus if you have watched the OT you known what has to happen. As a 12 year old boy watching TPM for the first time I knew Palp would become Emporer and the Anakin would become Vader then get the armor after being burnt. Seeing Artoo, Obi-wan, C3PO, and Yoda just ment they have plot armor along with Palp and Anakin.

For another persective on depth, go watch the sceen in RotJ where Palp is killing Luke and he begs his father to help him. THen watch the BLu-ray version of the same sceen. Which is deeper, When you read the emotion in Vader or when you are told with "NO"?

Better yet the writer bring up the point of structute in the fist paragraph, then never adresses it. Structure wise the prequils copy the OT. TPM copies ANH with the slow begining, middle action sequence, middle slow down, final action sequence, and award cerimony. AotC and RotS both fallow Empier's structure with action opening, slow down, reason to split main charactes up, middle action, slow down, final action, and ending with the felling the bad guys have won.
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The prequils tell the story that has been known by fans for years, but did that story really need to be told? George claimed that Jurassic Park showed him technology was avlible so he could make the movies.

Lets also not forget 1980's George argueing about preserving flims as they were, and today's George changes all the Star Wars movies at whim. Some stuff makes scence (Changing Boba's voice in Empier and CG Yoda in TPM) but the rest doesn't (Adding NO, adding rocks to better hide Artoo to the point Artoo couldn't have hidden in the cave)
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby Agent X » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:58 pm

ironrod prime wrote:most people who review the prequals have a biased opinion of them because those same reviewers grew up with the original trilogy

and how is yoda a shadow of who he was in tesb and rotj he barely did anything in those movies while in the prequals not only is he younger but we actualy get to see him fight


um rethink his age, in the TPH yoda is about 40 younger than he was in Empier. An when we see him in action he is only 30 years younger. So are you suggesting he aged like Obi-Wan (who could still fight (gods that will be the next thing George chagnes)) aged in looks?

He trained Luke in the OT, I wouldn't call that barely anything. To quote Yoda "Wars no make one great". Did we really need to see him fight? If anything his fighting in the prequils is greatly deminished due to age than anything he must have done in the 800+ years before them.

Better yet he fails to show any of the wisdom that he shows in the OT. If age was a factor here, then that must have been hell everyday for the 20 years before he trained Luke.

Why was Yoda the best to got the Kyyyyshky? Beside needing hem away form the Temple for "plot", he relationship with the wookies. But wouldn't a wookie jedi be the better choice? Oh wait maybe this is why George said no more wookie jedis.
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i have to agree with the biase factor, but there is also the biase from these younglings that saw the PT first.

I fall in that nice catagory that i never saw the OT in theaters until 97 then saw the PT. For me ANH might be the worst second being TPM both for story but TPM has the Darth Maul shinnyness.
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby Wing Saber » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:35 pm

Agent X wrote:i have to agree with the biase factor, but there is also the biase from these younglings that saw the PT first.

I'm going to interject here. I love all of the movies. But I think the prequels are better, even though I am of this younger generation
In fact, This is the order I saw the movies in:
1
4
5
6
2
3

So no, I didn't see them first
Both trilogies had their ups, and both trilogies had their downs. There's no arguing that they didn't.

Also, I want to, for opinions sake, display my personal ranking of the movies (Notice I said opinion)
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Attack of the Clones
4. The Phantom Menace
5. A New Hope
6. The Empire Strikes Back

I want to add, In my opinion, Phantom Menace and New Hope are equal, but Phantom Menace pulled ahead due to my obsession with Liam Neeson
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby ironrod prime » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:02 am

theres nothing to suggest that yoda doesnt age at the same rate humans do so its perfectly logical that he is much younger when we see him in tpm then when we see him in tesb (he never appeared in anh)
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Re: Star Wars is the best series ever!

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:22 am

One thing that cannot be denied about the PT is what it did to the Force. One word: Midichlorians. :P
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“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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