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Disappointment

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Re: Disappointment

Postby cyberwuss » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:53 pm

I don't think they are the same character because the backstory was different and they are in different universes according to the official stuff (optimus is not the same optimus for example). The backstory about the first combination in cybertron for wing saber and optimus was that they were in an asteroid belt but they combined when optimus was hurt inside unicron on energon so those two backstories don't match. The asteroid thing was only mentioned on cybertron by wing saber when asked by someone who I can't remember if it was a human or autobot but it clashes with it on top of them being different dimensions or whatever the thing about alternate optimus primes is.
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Re: Disappointment

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:18 pm

Wing Saber wrote:
i found wingsaber in cybertron to be my fave caricter but some of the confusion could have been avoided

speaking of this, is he the same as Energon wingsaber?
The Cybertron dub wants us to think so, but there are things that don't match up. Such as Hot Shot not knowing who Wing Saber is.

In the Japanese version, the two are not the same. Energon Wing Saber was called "Wing Saber" and Cybertron Wing Saber was called "Sonic Bomber".

Long story short, the Cybertron dub wants us to believe that every character that shares their name with a previous Armada/Energon character is the same character as that Armada/Energon character.

In Galaxy Force, however, this is not the case (or at least it may not be, as Takara has also retconned Galaxy Force in with Micron Densetsu and Super Link).


cyberwuss wrote:I don't think they are the same character because the backstory was different and they are in different universes according to the official stuff (optimus is not the same optimus for example).
All official stuff says that Cybertron is a part of Armada and Energon. That's where the retcon came from: official stuff.

cyberwuss wrote:The backstory about the first combination in cybertron for wing saber and optimus was that they were in an asteroid belt but they combined when optimus was hurt inside unicron on energon so those two backstories don't match. The asteroid thing was only mentioned on cybertron by wing saber when asked by someone who I can't remember if it was a human or autobot but it clashes with it on top of them being different dimensions or whatever the thing about alternate optimus primes is.
In Cybertron that flashback to the Charr Asteroid Belt was altered from the original version. In the orignal version, that flashback was to show the technique they tried (and failed) to use to get out of the asteroid belt, which they tried again (and succeeded) to dodge Starscream's boulder onslaught. Where Wing Saber got the idea of combining with Optimus from was in the previous episode where he saw Optimus combine with Leobreaker. In the dub, however, they merged to two ideas into one, implying that Optimus and Wnig Saber tried to combine back in the Charr Asteroid Belt in the past. This is just another dub error.

And even if the backstories are different, they aren't contradictory. As the continuity errors between the shows were given the (lame) excuse of the Autobots and Decepticons being said to be suffering memory problems from the Unicron Singularity (Grand Black Hole) distorting reality.
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Re: Disappointment

Postby lioconvoy » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:44 am

like most people i dislike the merging of cybertron/galaxy force in to unicrron, and the hole combination thing is stupid.
and howcome the combiner transformers, leo/ligerjack, op, wingsaber/bomber are not treated as performing a superlink? the terminology seems too have died out within the furst few episodes of energon.
i still like to think of galaxy force as seperate to the other two
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Re: Disappointment

Postby Wing Saber » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:44 pm

ok, i finally started reading your really long post Sabrblade, and i read Armada.
Most explicit is the repeated misnaming of characters, particularly the Mini-Cons.

ok, I agree with you on that part.
Cartoon Network, the channel that aired the show, reportedly would not sign off on the series without a certain number of episodes already finished, forcing a rush job to get the cartoon out to coincide with the toy line's release.

of couse Cartoon Network screwed everything up. they seem to be good at that.
The show has also taken flack for the repetitive nature of its first half, in which the same small groups of Autobots and Decepticons hunt for Mini-Cons in one episode after another.

This is because they must bring all the characters into the show.
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Re: Disappointment

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:15 pm

Wing Saber wrote:
The show has also taken flack for the repetitive nature of its first half, in which the same small groups of Autobots and Decepticons hunt for Mini-Cons in one episode after another.

This is because they must bring all the characters into the show.
This is referring to how most of the show's first half was almost nothing but filler with barely anything significant happening. And most of the characters introduced in this part were very bland or just glossed over in their intros. Smokescreen, Scavenger, Sideways, Blurr, Thrust, Jetfire, and Side Swipe all seem to come out of nowhere, and only a handful of them actually do anything worth mentioning in the series (Scavenger being a mentor to Hot shot, Sideways being the treacherous mysterious guy who later turned out to be a minion of Unicron, Thrust being a tactician-turned-loony, and Jetfire being Optimus's Magic Mushroom). Usually though, the only purpose any of these guys had were to be more "guys who just shoot at the enemy".

But really, the bulk of the show was random "Gotta Catch'em All!" stories.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Disappointment

Postby Wing Saber » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:44 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Wing Saber wrote:
The show has also taken flack for the repetitive nature of its first half, in which the same small groups of Autobots and Decepticons hunt for Mini-Cons in one episode after another.

This is because they must bring all the characters into the show.
This is referring to how most of the show's first half was almost nothing but filler with barely anything significant happening. And most of the characters introduced in this part were very bland or just glossed over in their intros. Smokescreen, Scavenger, Sideways, Blurr, Thrust, Jetfire, and Side Swipe all seem to come out of nowhere, and only a handful of them actually do anything worth mentioning in the series (Scavenger being a mentor to Hot shot, Sideways being the treacherous mysterious guy who later turned out to be a minion of Unicron, Thrust being a tactician-turned-loony, and Jetfire being Optimus's Magic Mushroom). Usually though, the only purpose any of these guys had were to be more "guys who just shoot at the enemy".

But really, the bulk of the show was random "Gotta Catch'em All!" stories.

Smokescreen it says followed them through the portal, Thrust was called by Megatron, Sideswipe tracked down Blurr. and another one who did something worth mentioning was Starscream. He convinced Megatron to join forces with OP.
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Re: Disappointment

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:31 pm

Wing Saber wrote:Smokescreen it says followed them through the portal, Thrust was called by Megatron, Sideswipe tracked down Blurr. and another one who did something worth mentioning was Starscream. He convinced Megatron to join forces with OP.
Starscream was there from the beginning. He wasn't a "new guy we gotta introduce at some point in the show".
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Disappointment

Postby Wing Saber » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:05 am

and also thrust was a major point in the show. He brought starscream back to the decepticons, built the hydra cannon, then brought the autobots and decepticons back to Cybertron, where Unicron was waiting for them. without him the show would have remained on earth looking for minicons the whole time
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Re: Disappointment

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:26 am

Wing Saber wrote:and also thrust was a major point in the show. He brought starscream back to the decepticons, built the hydra cannon, then brought the autobots and decepticons back to Cybertron, where Unicron was waiting for them. without him the show would have remained on earth looking for minicons the whole time
Yes, but he dregraded as a character over time. He started off as this cool, dark, and intimidating tactician that no one would dare question or oppose. He had everything going for him and could hold his own in both combat and rank. Then, at some point nearing the Unicron Battles, he became this comedic, desperate, and loony freak who'd throw fits and get all whiny to Megatron/Galvatron. And joining Unicron didn't help him because he still retained this wacky persona. What happened? He was this expert soldier at first, only to turn around and become as kooky as Dick Dastardly's dog partner Muttley from those old Wacky Races cartoons. He started off good, but in the end, he was just sad.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Disappointment

Postby blukis » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:15 pm

This thread has got me to thinking. Animated basically rocked. The Unicron Trilogy had a lot of wasted air time, but I also remember some really amazing bits (Optimus & Megatron's final battle near the end of Armada, being one of my all-time favorite Tranformers moments).

But the Unicron trilogy was some 155 (?) episodes in total, where Animated was 42. I wonder how they'd compare if you threw out the worst 73% of the Unicron trilogy first.

hmmmmm.......
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