Unicron.com: Transformers Collector Resource
Welcome to our forum! Login and introduce yourself!
-Lukis Bros & the Unicron.com community
(This message will self destruct once logged in.  :)

What frustrated me most about G1

TF:Prime, Animated, Beast Wars, G1, you name it!

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby ironrod prime » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:28 pm

i disagree i think his death in the film was handled well he went down fighting and his spirit returned at the end to pass the matrix to rodimus the only thing they could have done was a funeral scene and i agree they did cheapin his death in return of optimus prime not so much in dark awakining because the quintisans were the ones who brought him back and he did sacrifice himself
Image
User avatar
ironrod prime
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:50 pm

ironrod prime wrote:i disagree i think his death in the film was handled well he went down fighting
Sure, but it was just so quick. He's killed off and that's that. Optimus Prime is out of the picture and no one cared. The fact that there was such a negative backlash to this back in the day is obvious evidence of bad writing.

And what's more is that others who didn't grow up with G1 and saw this movie afterward have also gone on to say that they felt nothing when Optimus died. No connection, no emotion, just empty indifference, feeling that his death was swift and hollow without any real meaning to reel them in and grab onto. His demise just felt like "just another casualty" to them, only with the added fluff of it being more drawn out and given the coutesy of a funeral scene (Yeah where's that for Ironhide, Prowl, Ratchet, etc., huh? They were beloved characters too).

The whole point of the first act of the film was "kill off all the favorites to make room for the noobs", or "kill off all the old toys to make room for the new toys". The writers clearly didn't think of these guys as "characters" as much as they did as "marketable product". If they themselves didn't care back then while the fans did, it shows just how poor their decisions were when they made this film.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Sabrblade
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8559
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby ironrod prime » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:41 am

its not like he was killed and then forgotten

arcee, ultramagnus, even galvitron mention him at some point in the film

rodimus imfamously contrasts himself to him in season 3
Image
User avatar
ironrod prime
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:15 am

ironrod prime wrote:its not like he was killed and then forgotten

arcee, ultramagnus, even galvitron mention him at some point in the film

rodimus imfamously contrasts himself to him in season 3
Yeah, and he was always remembered by these guys as the guy everyone loved and who was better than them all. Rodimus especially wouldn't stop going on about how he's not as good as Optimus. :roll:
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Sabrblade
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8559
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby ironrod prime » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:32 pm

so you validate my point then that primes death in the movie wasnt just an eraser wipe and that he still had some influense
Image
User avatar
ironrod prime
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:22 pm

ironrod prime wrote:so you validate my point then that primes death in the movie wasnt just an eraser wipe and that he still had some influense
His death was a pointless display of carelessness with him going out with a whimper instead of a bang, and only resulted in everyone missing him, preferring him over his replacement and all the new stuff we got. Optimus was wanted back, and so they finally brought him back.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Sabrblade
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8559
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby ironrod prime » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:09 am

only to be killed of again in headmasters
Image
User avatar
ironrod prime
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:00 pm

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:18 am

ironrod prime wrote:only to be killed of again in headmasters
In that timeline, yes. In The Rebirth, however, he lives on, becoming a Powermaster by the time of season 5. :P
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Sabrblade
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8559
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby cyberwuss » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:30 pm

As someone who grew up on G1 cartoon, and even someone who grew up on PREG1 cartoons, I will explain some feelings I have on the subject of Optimus Prime dying.

When I say PREG1 cartoon, I mean some of my favorite TF shows were actually read along videos that were mostly still but had a bit of animation in them, these came out before G1 cartoon, they were technically children's storybooks with a bit of animation added in them, but they were quite awesome even though all the characters were drawn just like the toys.

This is the same book series that had the "Turbine-Mole Machine" in it.

Part of what made Optimus so great in G1 was that he had this Batman style way of thinking his way out of any dangerous situation, even in the PREG1 stuff I am talking about.

I think it was a poor move by Hasbro to kill him off for the new toys, but I think the writers of the script for the movie did a good job with handling what they were forced to do by Hasbro, letting Optimus die with a bit of dignity. It was especially well handled considering that it was really the first kids cartoon in America that had a dying main hero in it.

The Pros that came from G1 Optimus dying:

- introduced alot of mythology around the matrix and the position of prime as a title and not a name, stuff like primus, and such became alot more tied in and popular in later reiterations of Transformers, so it made the history of Cybertron and its mythological artifacts more popular.
- the other characters were shown to have great respect for what he was doing and his heroics even before he died, like when Kup almost teary eyed and in disbelief says "Prime did it... he turned the tide!"
- it was handled that Optimus might return even in the movie itself at the end, when his voice is heard saying "Arise Rodimus Prime." and it gave kids at the time hope about real evil being conquerable, and that goodness does pay off, reiterated when Optimus in G1 commercial says "Heros never die... I, Optimus Prime can never be conquered..."
- eliminated the whole nerf battle feeling of cartoons back then, honestly even more serious cartoons played out like the road runner from loony toons where wiley coyote would be run over by trains 100000x times by the end of the series and still be fine at the end, it gave kids cartoons that actually showed consequence instead of showing that they could just fight all day without getting hurt.

Cons:

- the resurrection of Optimus thing is now overused alot and has lost alot of its original impact.
- the emotional state of the kids when he died heh
- many people who were fans of season 1 and season 2 see season 3 as being not as up to par as 1 and 2 because of Optimus being replaced by Rodimus and it kind of turned them off of the entire franchise after that for alot of people
- sadly, one of the better series that handles Optimus dying well is Bayformers, and many people dont like Bayformers even though ROTF was one of the better OP resurrection tales so far: Sam takes place of Hot Rod and Kicker all at once, when he lays down his life rescueing OP by being shot in the back by Megs he enters the MoL in the way Rodimus and OP used to in seasons 3 and 4 and is greeted by the old Primes, just like Rodimus and OP when they used to enter the MoL, MoL is shown to have power of resurrection in Bayformers, so for now Bayfomers OP should be theoretically invincible like G1 when they talk about him being "The invincible Optimus Prime" but the invincible thing isn't overused since there is only one MoL, however even though the overall plot was mostly handled well for ROTF, DOTM kind of introduced the new con that MoL resurrected Sentinel too, so in theory any dead autobot can now be recovered by OP putting the Matrix inside them :p
Last edited by cyberwuss on Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The coward desires revenge but being afraid to die, he looks to others, maybe to the government of the day, to do the work of defense for him.
User avatar
cyberwuss
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:43 pm
Location: Greenpond, Alabama

Re: What frustrated me most about G1

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:22 pm

cyberwuss wrote:- introduced alot of mythology around the matrix and the position of prime as a title and not a name, stuff like primus, and such became alot more tied in and popular in later reiterations of Transformers, so it made the history of Cybertron and its mythological artifacts more popular.
None of that had anything to do with the movie. Primus wasn't thought up until at least a year after the movie came out. There was never any Primus in the G1 cartoon. The Quintessons made them in that version.

cyberwuss wrote:- eliminated the whole nerf battle feeling of cartoons back then, honestly even more serious cartoons played out like the road runner from loony toons where wiley coyote would be run over by trains 100000x times by the end of the series and still be fine at the end, it gave kids cartoons that actually showed consequence instead of showing that they could just fight all day without getting hurt.
And right after the movie, the show went right back to the way it was, making sure there was zero consequence of death just like before the movie. :P

cyberwuss wrote:Anyway, I will try to...
The rest of the post is off topic.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Sabrblade
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8559
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

PreviousNext

Return to Transformers - Cartoon Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests