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Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

TF:Prime, Animated, Beast Wars, G1, you name it!

Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby Agent X » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:41 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Agent X wrote:Also i have to note that DBZ was brought up on these last few pages. DBZ itself didn't have the best translation either, however the rerelease as DBZ Kai has a translation that is closer to the Japanese script. So it is possible years from now a diferent company might have the distribution rights and do a better translation.
Oh, yes. Dragon Ball Kai's dub (or at least, its uncut DVD dub and its slightly edited Nicktoons dub, but not its Toonzai dub) is superbly amazing! I love it! While I cannot watch any of the old DBZ dubs without laughing or cringing, I can watch Kai's dub and enjoy it supremely. :D


Toonzai = blue Mr. Popo
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby TriPredRavage » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:28 am

Sabrblade wrote:In addition to what I said about this before, there's also the matter that several of these Japanese characters who have Western counterparts appeared BEFORE their Western cartoon counterparts did.

...

Since the portrayals of these two in The Headmasters precedes their portrayals in the G1 cartoon, why should they be changed for these subbed DVDs to reflect versions that came after these ones were already established first (cartoon-wise)?

That argument makes absolutely no sense. Honestly, it doesn't. Your argument is, at its core, "The Japanese version came first, so why change the name to the later English name?" right?

The reason this argument doesn't make any sense is for the simple fact of every Japanese TF series coming over here having name changes.

Who came first; Galaxy Convoy or Cybertron Optimus Prime? Ligerjack or Leobreaker? Car Robots Gigatron or RiD Megatron? Lio Convoy or Leo Prime? Etc...

The "Chicken or the Egg" argument doesn't work in this case because it is such a common practice. You're trying to call foul to something because the depiction of Fortress/Cerebros and Scorponok/(Mega)Zarak are vastly different. Namely that the Japanese and English versions of these characters are completely different for all of the reasons you listed. But the simple fact of the matter is that Fortress and Cerebros, and Scorponok and (Mega)Zarak are Japanese and English counterparts to one another. So the names are interchangable, regardless of which one came first.
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:05 am

Hasbro's argument for these changes is that they're trying to make the Japanese versions match their U.S. cartoon counterparts because they see the U.S. cartoon season 4 as having higher importance for having come first, when it did not and does not.

Fortress is a different character from cartoon Cerebros. Fortress's personality came first, yet the U.S. ignored this when creating their Cerebros character. U.S. Scorponok is basically Lord Zarak in a large suit, yet Lord Zarak does not exist in The Headmasters. Scorponok was his own being.

This isn't like the dubbing of the Unicron Trilogy, as that was the same three shows with mostly a change in audio. In this case, they're taking one show and trying to make it be like a completely different show that came after it solely because they think The Rebirth was made first and holds a higher regard, when it does not.
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby TriPredRavage » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:29 am

Again, what actually came first does NOT matter. But if you want to get into, here's a fact: the original Transformers series was a Western made series. So our Transformers came before theirs. And regardless of if Headmasters or Season 4 came first, the series was American first. Season 4 was made to follow after the first three American seasons. Headmasters was made to follow after the Japanese dub of the first three American seasons. Which came first is a moot point because they are both intended to follow the same originally Western series (so the American one came first), with characters who are established to be one anothers' counterparts, regardless of if the depictions of the characters are different from country to country.
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:36 am

Fortress is still not the same person as Cerebros and shouldn't be treated as such (which is what Hasbro's doing). Same goes for Scorponok and Zarak.

If it has to do with them sharing the same toys, one toy can be used to represent multiple characters.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby TriPredRavage » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:47 am

Sabrblade wrote:Fortress is still not the same person as Cerebros and shouldn't be treated as such (which is what Hasbro's doing). Same goes for Scorponok and Zarak.

If it has to do with them sharing the same toys, one toy can be used to represent multiple characters.

They are one another's counterparts. End of story.
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:49 am

TriPredRavage wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Fortress is still not the same person as Cerebros and shouldn't be treated as such (which is what Hasbro's doing). Same goes for Scorponok and Zarak.

If it has to do with them sharing the same toys, one toy can be used to represent multiple characters.

They are one another's counterparts. End of story.
They're as much counterparts as Ginrai is to Powermaster Optimus Prime, rather than how Convoy is to regular Optimus Prime. There's different kinds of "counterparts".
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby TriPredRavage » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:10 am

Sabrblade wrote:They're as much counterparts as Ginrai is to Powermaster Optimus Prime, rather than how Convoy is to regular Optimus Prime. There's different kinds of "counterparts".

No, they aren't. And here's why: Ginrai and Optimus Prime exist together within the same continuity. Cerebros and Fortress do not. If Optimus hadn't died in Headmasters, he could have had a full on conversation with Ginrai in Masterforce. Cerebros and Fortress could never do this. Cerebros and Fortress are the same character, just one is English and the other is Japanese.

I am done talking about this, Sabr. I understand, you don't approve of some of the changes that were made in the release of Headmasters by Shout! and Hasbro. Some of those things I even agree with you about. But this conversation has devolved from being about that, to being more about that you don't approve of the Japanese characters being treated as their American counterparts, which is something that you and I have been at odds about many times. But where as I can concede that certain examples could be excluded from such adaptations (such as Ginrai and Optimus Prime), you can not. And for that reason, I am done talking about this. You don't want to see reason or come to an understanding, you just want to be told that you're right. And I won't do that. Because you're not. They could have gone one of two ways with this release: change them or leave them, and both would have been reasonable. They went with the option you don't like. And that's all this is about. End of story.
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:23 am

TriPredRavage wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:They're as much counterparts as Ginrai is to Powermaster Optimus Prime, rather than how Convoy is to regular Optimus Prime. There's different kinds of "counterparts".

No, they aren't. And here's why: Ginrai and Optimus Prime exist together within the same continuity. Cerebros and Fortress do not. If Optimus hadn't died in Headmasters, he could have had a full on conversation with Ginrai in Masterforce. Cerebros and Fortress could never do this. Cerebros and Fortress are the same character, just one is English and the other is Japanese.
Ginrai and Convoy do. Don't think of English-language cartoon Optimus as Japanese-language FSRLTF Convoy.

Optimus Prime and Cerebros are from Primax 984.17 Alpha. Convoy, Fortress, and Ginrai are from Primax 785.6 Alpha. Different streams = different worlds.

TriPredRavage wrote:I am done talking about this, Sabr. I understand, you don't approve of some of the changes that were made in the release of Headmasters by Shout! and Hasbro. Some of those things I even agree with you about. But this conversation has devolved from being about that, to being more about that you don't approve of the Japanese characters being treated as their American counterparts, which is something that you and I have been at odds about many times. But where as I can concede that certain examples could be excluded from such adaptations (such as Ginrai and Optimus Prime), you can not. And for that reason, I am done talking about this. You don't want to see reason or come to an understanding, you just want to be told that you're right. And I won't do that. Because you're not. They could have gone one of two ways with this release: change them or leave them, and both would have been reasonable. They went with the option you don't like. And that's all this is about. End of story.
I can understand your frustration with this and apologize for making this seem complicated. Sometimes I have difficulty getting the words I want to say across and wind up accidentally conveying a message that I didn't intend to. I'm trying to figure out how to make this understandable as best I can, but it's tough sometimes. I don't want to cause you any further irritation, but I also do sincerely enjoy these discussions we have (even if they get rolled into the wrong direction at times).
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“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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Re: Irritated with Hasbro and Shout! Factory >:(

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:21 pm

Grrr.

Well, now that Shout! Factory's released all three series on DVD, even more ethnocentric changes have been found. :-(

Many characters in Masterforce got the names of the American characters whose toys they share molds with. Even their human forms! :x Though, it seems that only those whose toys use the same deco as the American toys were changed, meaning all redecos got to keep their original names.

Lander --> "Landmine"
Diver --> "Waverider"
Phoenix --> "Cloudburst"
Lightfoot --> "Getaway"
Road King --> "Slapdash"
Blood --> "Bomb-Burst"
Dauros --> "Skullgrin"
Gilmer --> "Submarauder"
Wilder --> "Fangry"
Bullhorn --> "Horri-Bull"
Cancer --> "Squeezplay", and "Plague" :x
Turtler --> "Snaptrap"
Gulf --> "Skalor"
Kraken --> "Seawing"
Lobclaw --> "Nautilator"
King Poseidon --> "Piranacon"
Clouder/Doubleclouder --> "Dealer/Doubledealer" :x :x :x
Guzzle --> "Cindersaur"
Javil --> "Sparkstalker"
Sizzle --> "Flamefeather"
Guardminder --> "Fasttrack" :-(

And, as we anticipated, Godmasters are subbed as "Powermasters," which is just wrong. :evil:


With Victory, since there were less American molds, there were less name changes (THANK GOODNESS). Buuuuuuuuut, they still managed to slip some in.

Blacker --> "Gripper"
Holi --> "Stakeout"
Deszaras --> "Deathsaurus" (tolerable, maybe)

And, of course, the Brestforce/Breastforce was subbed with that stupidly PC-sounding name of "Chestforce". :-(

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"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” -- C.S. Lewis
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